Welcome to a radical discussion of independence three well Liberty in the left hand this is Damon Hospital your host Paul Frederick [Music] [Applause] [Music] [Applause] to another episode of a Monocacy where we continue to fight for liberty in the left-hand path my guest this evening mr. Boyd rice musician artist actor photographer author and he’s got a new book out the last Testament of Anton LaVey Boyd welcome to the show great to be here yeah and I had to give a concert mutual friend Aaron Powell of the Van Hollen who I think was instrumental in getting this conversation to happen and I think you’ve recently on tour with him in Europe huh well yeah a couple years back I was on tour with him in Europe and we really only did several shows but we went all over the place and we had many long nights up late-night conversations at her towels over drinks and that was great you know that was worth the price a mission I thought there’s a great guy so I did shows with him with my band Asmodeus sex live many years ago because he lives in Dallas I live in Houston and so we did we did Oh a couple shows together back in the day and I just recently kind of like reconnected with them and you know he’s a really is a really great guy and then yet you and I met I don’t think that you would necessarily remember this because it’s a while back with 1997 you and I met at the Dome room in Chicago when you were on tour with death in June and strength through joy yeah yeah I loved that was a great venue I think come was later like taken over by some rapper turn it into a hip-hop club or something but that was a great venue yeah oh my god I didn’t know about that and I remember so the dome would had this big picture of the top of it that’s like there’s a Zeus godlike face like way up at the top and had all these tiers and it’s like a really cool place and I was there with other mutual friends of ours Thomas thorn oh yeah yeah yeah I haven’t uh Thomas used to come through town about once a year but I haven’t heard from him for ages of Ages so he’s doing good he moved to Florida and uh-huh and he like about two years ago he had a they did a electrical fire club reunion show in Miami and invited me to come down and reopen for them and it was so awesome it’s like you know it’s you know 10 years later 15 years later whatever was um it’s a rich rich Frost with their and Richter and all these old guys yeah so you know I picked up this 1997 show you were doing this I kind of considered this the height of this the total war sang that’s the song that I remember and and when you were doing that song at that time it was just just amazingly incredible and powerful I wanted to thank you you yeah did you suspect at that time that a few years later but America would actually be plunged into not necessarily a total war but a state of kind of perpetual war oh no no but it’s funny because when at the point when the u.s. began bombing Iraq mute records they play this music in their stairwells and when you’re waiting on the phone and Daniel Miller when the first bombs dropped he said start playing total war on repeat and quiet constantly as long as the war goes on yeah I would call up and I’d hear this weird stuff on I’d say well what the hell you guys playing it some weird noises thing they said Boyd we’re playing you that’s little war realities you know if the new Wars aren’t them is interesting as if the old wars and you know total war was meant to be a kind of a personal thing you know interface not actually you know going out blinding of people or having bayonets er ah although at that guns and an expert though a little more Valentino more about like that internal like the internal struggle yeah exactly oh it’s like I asked about this I saw him you met diamond himself recently oh yes yes how was that that was amazing it was like a uniquely American phenomena because they’re just these two gals who put these ramps there’s on the Internet and then it just blew up and make became famous because of that and they’re just like too ordinary gals who have larger-than-life personalities and strong opinions and they have transitioned from just being to average gals to these women who go on the road and have a really polished showbiz ah but it’s still venues like telling their opinions and stuff and people just love them you know I bet then they were in Colorado Springs and I went down with whale song partridge and we spent the night in the hotel where they work period but that was a lot of fun no looks like that sounds awesome I’ve seen them online and and you know everything you’re saying about it was absolutely correct they’re just so intense and entertaining and what I really like about them is it’s not you know not not so much the you know the point where they’re going with it necessarily but the fact that they’re smashing expectations they’re like not supposed to be supporting the things that they’re talking about supporting right now and it just makes people so angry I just love and it’s really this one to me that’s kind of labeija right expectations you know love the forbidden yeah but you know the thing with the whole of a aspect of that is like the villain or the antihero is thus pissed off a lot of people but then the people who they don’t piss off are the people who love them as much as the other people hate them so exciting the room I was in was a room full of love where people are just saying oh my god I can’t believe I’m seeing these wild women sassy women saying all this stuff you know in it they’re hilarious no they’re totally totally on cue so this is the question that was asked to me recently and I got baptized to see you because you do Anton LaVey personally and and we’re going to talk about your book you know which i think is just fabulous and has some great inside tenets but what do you think Anton LaVey who were alive today what would you think about Donald Trump um I just think he would love the whole atmosphere that’s going on and that he wouldn’t love the device Ignace and love the way people are losing their mind and he’d you know he was a very apolitical person because to him politics really didn’t matter to concede always you know in the 50s he was living the same life as their life he was living during the period when I knew him which was the last ten years of his life so he wasn’t one of these people who’s depending upon whatever happening in politics I’m thinking oh well when the new person gets into office then my life can change then I can be happiest you know he wasn’t a person who lived that way so on one level it would be irrelevant to him but I think he would like Trump because he’s he’s a [ __ ] stirrer and he’s a tough guy and he’s you know he’s a person sighs in high school people always scolded me for being a political and I said you know politicians are just fair these people who are they’re liars they tell you whatever they think you want to hear and when they get into office they don’t keep it even a prom says and you know it’s like I’m not waiting for you know I can change my life right now if I want to I’m not waiting in a political situation to change so I would say I’ll be interested in politics when a businessman runs for office no you know so I always thought well if a businessman for an engineer so he was in charge of the government they’d uh they’d understand the way things really work in the real world they wouldn’t think you know oh if we throw a bunch of money at a problem you know if we send billions of dollars over to Iran they’re going to love us all of a sudden you know they’re they’re idiotic so you know so I think I I think he would just appreciate the whole phenomenon mm-hmm that’s what I tend to think – um is that he would just be he would just be chuckling about it exactly yes when I when that last election happen I you know I was I was out at a bar drinking and watching everything happen on the on the TV – come on you know Hillary’s going to win right it is just nothing you know no other possibility here and then I woke up in the morning I got a text telling me that Trump won and napping again I didn’t have a dog in this house I didn’t have a horse in this race but we’ve all thought that I just I just laughed I just laughed so hard because it was so unexpected it’s so bizarre and he’s so contrarian and he’s so you know you but at the same time you know I feel ya to invest your your your life and your personality and your destiny in another person right a demagogue of any kind it’s kind of collectivist and not very satanic or individualist but still it’s goddamn entertain yeah yeah yeah that’s what I’ve got to say it’s this isn’t in the most entertaining three years uh that I can remember so let’s talk about let’s talk about a holiday let’s talk about your book tell me why you wrote this book in and a whole vibe and your vision and what you’re trying to are you trying to do with it oh well I sort of first I’d always you know had him back online at some point I’m going to have to write something about LaVey and all these stories I have about it so um but um a couple years ago this organization in Hollywood called lethal amounts put on this Anton LaVey show on Hollywood Boulevard and they had all these photos with a memorabilia and like the 20th anniversary of his death and people who attended like if they paid an extra hundred bucks apiece they could go up in this little fear and hear me speak and Carlo of a and Kenneth Anger so all these people paid this money to see all of us and and I just thought oh well you know the time is obviously right because there’s a new love a book there’s a number of documentaries coming out it was a ridiculous documentary about him and Jayne Mansfield which I couldn’t even finish watching you know it was just morrible but but it indicates that there’s an interest there and I and me and Carla shared the stage we just sort of like shared our memories about her father and I thought wow this is some really great stuff you know it’s like people don’t really you know I grew up right when that whole thing was happening so I remember Anton LaVey is a pop culture icon and I remember seeing him on the newsstand and seeing the Satanic Bible in the checkout line at the supermarket the offers in sale I mean the huge phenomena and I just thought you know it’s like people who didn’t live through that really have no idea I’m imagining how huge it was or what it was like so I tried to like capture something of that like what that period of time was like and what he was like as a person because some he’s far more complex than then a lot of things would lead you to believe it’s a very interesting guy no I think I hit the nail on the head with complexity I mean that’s a definitely complex and there’s one point in the book where you talk about he kind of would pivot between like several different personalities like you had the German you know the German expressionist expressionist personality that he had the old old Jewish cynic personality then he had a through manchu personality and it’s like no that just really lays it out that makes so much sense when you consider that they kind of fluctuated between these these different things and you can see this in his works too that it different works that he put out even different you know the ceremonies like in the satanic rituals or each of them kind of partakes of one of these like when these vibes or one of his uh you know one of his personalities yeah yeah it’s just like every aspect of everything he was into is like part of this vast cosmology and it’s really hard to be able to get your head around the whole thing unless you sort of it spent a lot of time with them and you know it’s like every week you would dug at a certain point you know I’d go over it 7:00 in the evening and I’d leave like it’s 6:00 in the morning so I’d stand there and pull the Sun came up and every week you would show me one of his favorite movies and so I got to see a lot of movies I never would have seen under any other circumstances spider fell more often and what cut time period was Justin you’re meeting with him it was synonym it started in the late 80s like late 1986 or early 87 and and I went over every week sometimes twice a week until I left San Francisco and October of 89 but after that I went back all the time up until the time when he died and I saw him really a couple weeks before he died I went out I took the Amtrak out there did an interview with him four seconds magazine and that as it turns out is his last interview so that’s what the last Testament of an x and relevé one of the things in it it’s his final interview and Blanche Barton and her updated down biography of him said that that’s one of the best interviews he ever did it was probably because I was so familiar with him new one is interested in me what to ask so so I’m glad that got back in Kernighan and that is given that that’s like one of the most touching parts I think of the book um that I’ve looked at is when you talk about how you got the phone call oh god yeah and you know what I think I mean I remember where I was the day I mean maybe that says something about you know people you know who were inch into Satanism at the time when he died it’s kind of like our Kennedy moment or the 9/11 moment that you’re always going to remember where you are and what was going on when you heard that Anton LaVey died because it’s one of those things I think no one expected you know that to happen or thought that was really going to happen but could you can you talk a little bit about about that experience well we me and Destin June have done a show someplace in New York City and there was a goth club called the bank and it’s a place that had originally been a bank so they were throwing after our show they were what’s that I was just gonna say I plated that clown I know I’m decorating oh wow yeah so they were throwing a private party for us and some other people at that Bank and I was talking with all these young people who are interested in Holiday and they were all say you know what’s an thon will they like and you know and yes some of them actually said something about when he died and I said no they said you know he’s not going to die because it would get many [ __ ] you know pleasure so you should get him to tough it out and live forever and then I get this call and they go way down in this Bank halt and you know hear that Anton LaVey died and you know he seemed perfectly healthy when I’d seen him a short while earlier wow that’s really weird because now I’m putting together the timing of all that the what that was like was it 97 or 98 97 I say so because I’m putting it all together that I came through there with morphine angel was the band that I was in at the time as the band that uh you know we did shows with the electric Hellfire clubs and stuff like that and that’s when we came through there and it must have been shortly after you were there and heard all that um so it’s really interesting putting together all the timing on this and another interesting thing is I mentioned how you know you wanted to fill in the gaps for sort of how big all this stuff was in that you know in kind of that mid 60’s era when it was really going on and it was really hot you know because uh something for me like I’m not 51 years old I was born in nineteen I was born in 1968 so by the time I found this botanic Bible when I was 13 years old you know this dish it was all over as far as I said I’m stuck I lived in in Nebraska right so okay there’s no there’s not anyone else around you know who presented this stuff so you know I discovered this book and this philosophy and it was incredibly empowering completely you know completely changed my outlook on life you know I was depressed and feeling sorry for myself kid you know at the time and and that book was like really empowering and turned things around you know it inspired me to turn things around for myself but I always had this question is is it stuff actually still going on you know is this stuff real are there actually people out here doing that and I never knew that I never knew that you know for many years later life itself you know 1988 or so when I started to make connections but that also I think there’s a lot of people like that we don’t know about that time period you don’t know how big this was you don’t know how embedded in that local in that regional you know West Coast culture Satanism was was becoming you know and ledee was extremely well-known figure in San Francisco just because he was an eccentric and you know he made good copies for the newspaper he was like a an organist and a stage hypnotist and he you know went to art fairs to try to sell his paintings and things and so it’s before he did the Church of Satan he was a very well known figure and he started doing his lectures series of occult lectures and thing called the Magic Circle and you know he have apps for that in the newspaper every week in San Francisco and people show up and pay to hear these lectures and then some cop who he worked with on the police force really liked them and would always attend these lectures and at one point he said you know Anton you you’ve got enough enough material here to start your own religion you could start your own church and so he thought well yeah that’s true so um yeah so did off from that into the order of the trapezoid and then that was just like a more serious formalized sort of accounting fraternity but eventually you know he changed it into the Church of Satan and real life it that he could take these ideas that could remain in this closed circle of like an underground of occultists or he could take these same ideas and check them out words into pop culture so that everybody would be influenced by him everybody in the United States would know who he was his face would be synonymous with his ideas and you know it worked beyond his wildest dreams because it’s living in the 50s he was down in LA and you know working in these strip clubs playing an organ it was virtually unknown and he came back he came back to Hollywood ten years later and he was as famous as any of the movie stars he was hanging out with he was like just as famous its Jayne Mansfield or Sammy Davis jr. or I’m forgetting the guy’s name Oh anyway you know he he met a lot of people when he looked out there he lived in James Pink Palace for a long time after schita I think he saw that the group dynamic wasn’t really working out and that he would just put this information out there and that he would essentially be a recluse and he would still like fly all over the world like there were like Mexican movie stars who went into Satan fittin they had giant statues of Satan in their house and he would go visit them er you notice people in Europe and you know but it is you know got to a point when I met him he said I can count on the fingers my two hands how many people walk through that door there and I’d still have a lot of fingers left over so you can see if you if you look at that way a movie likes a canvas and you see ledee is in this room full of people and they are all interesting people and they’re all from every walk of life and they’re obviously unique people and but he’s up there talking and all these other people are talking and he’s just sort of sitting there smiling to himself and waiting for him to shut up so he could continue talking and that’s not a good dynamic form it’s not a good dynamic for the people who want to hear what he’s into because you know it’s like are you know our evenings I would just you know I would shut up and listen until Ryan oh oh just like I don’t want to like interject my opinion here what I can set here to be regaled with these amazing tales from you know okay not I know I know exactly what part of a Tanis you’re talking about all these people are carrying on and uh an Anton can’t get a word in edgewise and when you watch the movie you’re like I wish you people would shut up because I want to know what he says you know yeah Oh care about you know Isaac Bonwit so I getting is getting his penis flushed you know just like one of the famous that’s one of the famous moments for that that show um yeah other but you can also see right oh I was just going to say you can also see it’s like it really did start off with even though the group dynamic wasn’t appropriate it started off with a good group dynamic this is these is for people who are intellectuals back when that word meant something there wasn’t derogatory I mean there were people who are self-taught and intellectually curious and there were individuals living their own kind of epicurean life and they came together around this man and these ideas and you know it’s like by the time you’re talking about it’s like the people who bought the Satanic Bible were like teenagers listening at any metal music or something so it was a whole different demographic so that really wouldn’t have been worth mother his time so and didn’t you say um that he said at one point that everything was like over in 1969 no he said the world turned to [ __ ] my teaching students Oh 69 tillage or anything did he have anything particular in mind my quads oh oh yeah yeah I mean he Manson he didn’t have to think about it he didn’t have to think about it I said so when exactly did everything turn to [ __ ] when did the cultural inversions hard and he said you didn’t hesitate a bit he said 1969 that’s when feminism raised its ugly head women stopped wearing garters and stockings and everybody was wearing pantyhose it all went to you know went right in the 1969 so um that’s interesting and and and you know I think one of the things that lavey was rebelling against of course he’s rebelling against you know pretty obvious things like Christianity and mediocrity but he was also rebelling against the white light so-called white light you know paganism and and and witchcraft which he criticizes these things in the Satanic Bible and at that time you know feminism and all of that stuff is wrapped up in feminism and a left-wing political movement and I mean this is to me seems very clearly something that he was also rebelling against um do you think that that’s true yeah absolutely and the fuzzy thinking of the hippie generation he just saw that as being like I did I mean I was 13 at the time but even I could see that this is something that’s weak and confused and you got all these people who are like in their late teens and early 20s your brain doesn’t stop developing until age 25 so you get all these young people with undeveloped brains and they’re all ingesting mind altering drugs so of course they can all sit around and listen to whatever album they’re listening to and agree that everybody should love one another and there should be peace and universal brotherhood and all that crap so you know LaVey hated that he hated that fuzzy thinking and it’s the ironic thing is like that fuzzy thinking of the 60s of the hippie era it’s like the exact bedrock of modern liberalism it’s based on all that fuzzy thinking these nice founding ideas that are just highly delusional and unreal stick you know but now people being forced to you know alter their existence to try to echo back and it’s not working well no so there’s a modern satanic movement I know if you’ve seen the t-shirts that say satanic feminism there’s a there’s a current movement that calls itself satanic that really embraces all of those left-wing you know hippie ideas and they’re kind of trying to whitewash lavey out of it you know levae had a had really strong ideas about women the virtue of women and the power of women and he believed there’s two sexes and you know this is all apparent throughout you know the complete witch but now this is modern movement is in this weird position of trying to carry forward this torch of what lavae started but also at the same time it’s like they’re trying to surgically remove this one piece out of it and I’m not sure where it’s going to go what do you what do you think about that I don’t think it will go anywhere you know it’s so yeah I’ve heard tel aviv these people get together and pick up trash in certain neighborhoods and again women’s rights rallies that show satanic presence you know if you want to be a liberal just be a liberal there’s plenty of organizations for liberals out there don’t try to co-op something that’s absolutely the antithesis of liberalism and then you know make it into something nice no they really hype yeah yeah because some you know and excuse me I’m doing some stuff um I think when was that going with that I forget what you just said I did some sniffing I lost my train of thought yeah well you know that was his one of his pet peeve people who called himself Satanist and but we’d always had oh oh but we’re nice guys and I remember he said to me when she said because people are research pissed off and Paulo may and and at me and they said Anton LaVey used to be a really nice guy until he started hanging out with you and I told lavey that and he laughed and he said I’ve never been a really nice guy he’s a McCoy I’m a miserable son of a [ __ ] I don’t want people going around saying I’m a nice guy yeah I I guess I can understand during the Satanic panic where people try and say oh no we’re at these horrible people but I think you know the Satanic panic went away and they’re still doing that they’re still trying to convince everybody they’re nice guys and you know that’s that’s not why I was attracted to Anton LaVey here the church Satan I was attracted because it was mysterious and it was all about the forbidden the shadow side and it seemed dangerous you know and then if I was 13 nowadays and exposed to any of these people modern people call himself Satan that’s claimed to be safest I just you know I don’t know what the appeal would be I don’t know who they’re failing to and I wanted to mention we could talk about the Satanic Bible being available in supermarkets at the time would you so it’s inconceivable to me however I do have a friend in Houston who was around in the 60s and was hip to all this stuff back then and he had told me that that’s where he got the Satanic Bible originally was at a supermarket in in Houston Texas so it was available in supermarkets well outside of California if it’s involved that you know that’s that’s that’s that’s some cultural penetration is what that means yeah yeah that’s a I got my copy of a food basket Superboy in Lemon Grove California and I remember I also saw in there the devil’s Avenger and we didn’t get it like the very time I saw it and I never saw it again you know until like a I found a copy 20 years later or something mm-hmm but yeah that stuff was everywhere I mean people I go into it in the book and I’ve talked about it elsewhere about how um there were there was a weekly magazine called band myth and magic and it was sort of an encyclopedia of the occult and there was a billboard for man myth and magic with an an Austin spare drawing if like service Baphomet goat man guy on the cover and there was a billboard for that in let me grow there were commercials for it on TV and the commercial said finally at last there’s a magazine devoted to witchcraft demonology the taro root and black magic and and I just thought wow this is going to be great so God’s big occult revival and personally because I think ledee was spearheading map so August occult stuff is going out because people were thinking about I just saw what was the episode I was just watching an episode of some television show last night or a couple weeks ago where um you’re talking a magazine publisher was talking about oh you’re going to do an article about the Satanic occult Club in San Francisco well I don’t know if that’s a good idea and it wasn’t like this shelf from 1970 or something they’re obviously referring to the Church of Satan Wow so there’s an interview that you do in here where you ask him some members of your organization said he believe in Satan as an anthropomorphic deity Oh Anton says the people who believe in an anticodon fixate not possibly the ideal are born Satanist so on and so forth um where do you think he really stood on that question well I think you know we discussed at length manipulating archetypes is a basic part of lesson magic and so he says everybody has an archetype and if you understand what it is and if you manipulate it you can use it to your advantage for instance he said there are some people who are Satanists and they don’t look terribly satanic and they don’t look sinister they maybe look like a librarian or something he said well a person like that could take advantage of that archetype and you know where Tweety suit with leather patches on the elbows and try to look professorial and people would Accord them that respect that you would give a professor so they could make you know even if they look in a sexual they could make it work for them so I think you know he really saw Satanism one of the most one of the most powerful archetypes of you know the last few millennia Western civilization and he he realized a certain point that he just incarnated that and that that’s what made him decide to go with the Church of Satan said he just sort of but he was asked to do a black mass with an event and he he came out and you know his sword and like yelled out open wide the gates of all the rooms in felt silence and and people were just people on the edge of their seats and just looking and watching and and they were just hypnotized by it and that’s when he realized you know oh my god this really is a powerful thing this is you know it’s people are responding to me as though I were of a devil incarnate and it’s like if I can have this influence of a room of some of the best and brightest san francisco’s elite that imagine you know how easy it would be to reach the American public with this imagery and you know imagery is a part of man’s a very visual animal and imagery is an important part of religious ceremony it’s an important part of politics it’s important part of like rock and roll you can’t really underestimate the lengths to which you can use imagery or pageantry or something to you know sure to make it point for you because I I when I just saw pictures of love a in front of that black house and I didn’t need to read anything you know because I knew he was doing this in the mid-60s when friends loved the health angels who you know we’re friends with my father they’re friends with me and he came back from San Francisco one week and said because I was always in Gia called this guy says hey what would you say if I told you there’s a place in San Francisco called the Church of Satan as I said and it’s a real Church they said yeah Ethan got a building it’s all painted black and I said where they believe it and he said well rational self-interest and men taking control of their own destinies like I said well what’s that have to do with Satan and he said well they also practicing they practice black magic and curse people and do have these great rituals with a lot of naked ladies and I didn’t even have to know anything more about it just for me to know that there are people someplace doing this it just made me think that the possibilities of life just opened wide for me I just saw it it really is possible for a person to just live by their own law to do exactly what they want to do because if you think of the world of 1966 you think of what was on TV it was still very much like you know my three sons sort of said you know who so like people didn’t even have a really long hair yet and I keep 66 drums you know and that lie actually that line that you just shared with us from the book about oh yeah it’s about rational self-interest and men taking back their own lives as one that I highlighted on here that’s a really powerful line and it’s also I think really really sums it up really well you know rational self-interest personal responsibility that’s the elevator you know the elevator speech about what Satanism is and if that appeals to you if that makes sense to you then that indicates that you’re on you’re on that side of it you know you’re on that side of the moral compass as it were as far as the question about individualism versus collectivism and how she was on all of these things yeah but still even like the best ideas are not appropriate for everybody because he he sort of felt that those ideas about rational self-interest and all that stuff placing yourself in the center of your own universe it sort of led to the me generation where it was a bunch of people who weren’t really cut out to be the center of their own universe see hey the whole thing lots of people who say oh well we think we’re our own God you can say for you if that person’s their own god they’ve got a terrible religions pissed moral religious you know so it’s like anything any good idea I think you know when it’s taken over by the public can be you know degraded deluded I mean I think it it never inevitably will ya know it’s uh it gets it gets mass-produced something is always lost in it always loses a little bit of the offense but you know getting back to that yeah that 80 is in question and this is something I mean it’s it is because it comes up you know satanic atheism is a thing as explicitly like what a lot of modern groups say and and they say it’s so obvious it’s just so obvious that we’re atheists you know and in my experience it’s not that obvious you know I can’t see I can’t be you going to like you know Christopher Hitchens and saying you know oh yeah you know Satanism is it’s the same thing you know I think he’s going to tear that part and when you go back and you look in in the Satanic Bible you know I mean he the only times even mentions atheism in that book well the books before the current four words that are in it but the earlier versions of this book the only time a theism comes up is when he criticizes it criticizes Christian atheism and in the chapter how held the devil on how to sell your soul he talks about how you know he addresses that question you know what it’s Satan is our Satan and and he talked about dark forces in nature he says something some Satanist don’t even deal with this question but it’s not even necessary right and this is a an important aspect I think of Satan as those that belief is not that significant of a thing and that’s not a prerequisite for being able to take control of your life and your destiny but he talks about you know like stark forces of nature and he talks about archetypes an archetype as something that you know that other people can access not just into any of this not just my trip but you know other people can access this and whatever that is I’m not sure what it is but to me that’s not AG ism yeah yeah well what you’re saying about belief is a prerequisite I think you know you could go way further than that I go way further than that I I think on the process of belief is innately flawed there’s a name the process of belief is like a fundamental form of tyranny it tyrannize the mind because belief is about group fate whatever you believe whatever type of belief it’s like the realities of life as it is life as it is doesn’t need explanations you don’t have to believe in you know anything you can see with the evidence of your senses and the only thing that gets in the way of the evidence of your sons this is is if you have beliefs that you know confuse them so I think every belief is a false ideology you know like the road I wanna see abandoned belief abandon ideology you know philosophy can’t get about it you don’t need any of those things and if you have them they’re just you know you’re going to tie you into group cling so that’s a very very insightful I think that’s accurate yeah belief always like implies an implied group thing it implies well this is what I got to say to other people about it and you know why is that why is that necessary for you to you know have your own cut your own way through the universe ever yes so where were we going with that again I don’t know I can’t remember I thought you made a really good point about beliefs the the structure beliefs the whole nature of belief is unnecessary because beliefs is connected with a group think of some kind okay well I know what I know what I was going to say is that I was going safe the deal later said 9 out of 10 people are hard-wired to believe they’re hardwired to be part of the collective and then 1% of people are hardwired to have independent thought and to think for themselves and that ratio has remained the same throughout the history of the world and those you know it’s like you don’t look down at the collective because those that people sort of make things work they’re necessary and you don’t resent the people who are on top because they’re actually making things happen so you need these two parts of the puzzle to have the whole machine work but to posit this idea that we’re all equal and then the contrary idea that were all unique individuals like neither those things make sense 90% of people are hardwired one way because it’s necessary and 10% people are hardwired another way because it’s necessary and you just you fall into one category or the there and if you’re in the collective you obviously aren’t aware of it yeah you know the thing is what I think about the collective is you know it’s it’s okay collectivism is okay if it’s voluntary and then I would say if it’s voluntary it’s not really collectivism it’s more like you know cooperation or collaboration or people are just doing whatever they do and not worrying about it the problem that we have one of the problems that we have in the world is that collectivism is kind of forced you know from on high some you know governmental systems and why not and to me a lot of like Satanism is about trying to break out and liberate oneself from whatever forces you know try and coerce you and try and push you down into conformity you know what I mean um yeah but I don’t necessarily agree with that I don’t believe that anybody acts other than what their innate character is so if your take care achter is still to be outside of all that you will be even if you even if you want to be inside that you will be on the outside and the people will collect it it’s the same thing it’s like they would be into some sort of group plan whether it was forced upon them or it’s voluntary and it’s you know they’ve got all the options in the world they can there’s a million different ways that can dress there’s a million things they can be into and they’ll just be into the same handful of things they all seem to like you know where their baseball cap the same way or whatever so okay I really don’t think they have any choice I don’t think it’s a matter of choice I think most people are compelled to do something or to not do something because of the way they are so I was going to say I was looking at this other piece thing you mentioned in here about people who imagine Anton to be brooding gloomy and tower have no idea the vast scope of personality or his complexity and levae was nothing if not complex and the different aspects of his personality were like a puzzle formed of many interlocking pieces and you also talk about here about the kind is kindness and he had a kind aspect to his personality can you talk a little bit about that um well he was a kind of you know he was grew up in another generation so he appreciated a lot of things that have sort of been lost in the modern world so he appreciated like tenderness and he appreciated like corny old love songs and things and he felt like people are just sort of debates now they they sort of in forgotten really how to love and they forgotten how to hate appropriately and you know he could he could like go to the extremes in both of those things you know he loved I forget what it was called but there was some from opera about Roy Dee’s who she was like the king of this kingdom mediator involved in some war all these people were dying and he had a favorite tree and the tree got hurt and the tree was dying and he was standing in front of the tree singing a song to it and weeping about how much was going to miss that tree and you know his tree meant more to the sky you have this tenderness for the tree that he didn’t have for Humanity in general right and like he had for animals too so that’s not really god yo hey like his love for animals his love for his you know tow gar the lion Dobermans did you ever get to witness witness that side of him first hand oh god yeah yeah he had um he had a couple of these desert cats he had a black calf you had a Maine [ __ ] cat he had a boa constrictor and but blackout was done one time and it was getting so weak that it couldn’t even leap up on his lap anymore and he fed that cat account was getting skinnier and skinnier he fed that cat with an eyedropper until it did eventually just he woke up one morning and it was dead and then he got a sort of metallic briefcase without with locks on it and he put that cat in that briefcase and that cat remained in his kitchen probably until the day he died hmm loved that cat and he loved toe gar – and I am ProGuard from one of coke our son was a lion named trouble that was still in the San Francisco Zoo when I would lived in San Francisco so I’d always go and see him at feeding time and I recorded a bunch of his roars and sampled them on one of my old albums like I think was blood and flying or circling oh wow I didn’t know that capital guard yeah that’s cool no guard I was tocar son um trouble okay well still it’s the bloodline yeah pretty cool yeah you know they passed a law in the city of San Francisco that it was illegal to keep wild animals at your house it’s just because of Lille’s lion because that land would roar at all times of night and keep people in yeah yeah you can’t do anything anymore oh okay so so what about you beloved re do you have animals oh yes hambone Capra Gundersen cat person absolutely we’ve got two lovely cats I’m sitting on the bed here and I we’ve got a black-and-white tuxedo cat named mr. T and we’ve got a big fat patty cat named JJ’s probably downstairs someplace there outside in the yard man these guys are like like our familiars and mr. t loves my wife Karen and JJ’s always and sleeping with me right up by my head and they follow us around where whatever room when they follow us around at last close to us as we can that’s awesome so I I was a cat a cat person way back in the day but then I acquired allergy to cats and so so now I’m a dog person I’ve got two Dobermans and adoption oh great full spectrum yeah it’s a total spectrum and ya know we’re like we’re like family we’re all like family and and and I love them so much I don’t have children either these are my my children I’m married I have a wife and and the dogs are our babies and you know that’s just an important thing I mean you people who have animals that have the connection with animals it’s like that says something about right there about who they are and what they’re made of and what they’re what they’re no moral fiber is yeah well it’s amazing that it seems like animals become more and more popular the more this downward spiral history gets it’s like sort of the last bastion of something pure is a relationship with an animal look on on the internet and all the crazy cat videos and all the funny dog videos and stuff you know yeah people really fond their animals yeah so um so some other things I wanted to ask you about you you’ve been to because there’s a lot I mean you’ve done you’ve done a lot of [ __ ] and it’s just hard to like encompass it all into this but so you were to Rennes-le-Chateau yeah yeah friend of mine is over there right now he’s uh taking some pictures for me is that right I mean he was just stuck with this I became obsessed with this in like I don’t know like 98 or so I read the book Holy Blood Holy Grail and one of the things that came out of it as I started a musical project called Asmodeus X which was to some extent based on some of the ideas and information out of that and I’ve always wanted to go there never had a chance I thought you went there you know what was it like oh it was amazing it was amazing because it’s just um we went there with Fox television did they were going to do bring back this old TV show in search of you see Leonard Nimoy I found ya in search of yes and they’re going to bring that back for a while and these producer of the show like like my music and so he found out I was in for that and so they flew me over there and um yeah so I got see the place in person and it’s very impressive and and a lot of when you actually go there and see the stuff you’re aware that most of the people who write books about the mystery of Rennes-le-Chateau have never actually been there alright and yeah yeah because when you’re there you see all sorts of things jump out at you and we went the sakhaa Street was the door the SACA stre was nailed shut for some reason and this woman allowed us in the camera crew to take the nails out and go inside this old thing it with a dirt floor and spiderwebs and you know it was if there’s a lot of amazing stuff here and the um Tim stone of behringer songyang somebody had taken a chisel to it and chiseled away so his cheek phone look like a cheekbone you made his face look like a skeleton like a scholar laughs well and it was very strange because it looked very intentional and then I was on the other side of the cemetery and it’s it was a weird kind of yellowy color rock stone I don’t know what kind of stone it was I was on the other side of the cemetery and I saw this weird triangular shapes yellow stone and it was the very piece that had been knocked out of his tombstone i hounded up that it’s cheek and it like you know made a perfect face whoa that’s amazing so did you so what happened did you keep it did you glue it back in oh no I kept it I kept it just looking at a few days ago as a matter of fact somebody was over here and I had there was a plastic bag with all these little relics in and somebody said what’s that weird piece of stone I told them the Rennes-le-Chateau story right here yeah yeah a personal theory about the relate Rennes-le-Chateau story do you think like Holy Blood Holy Grail is that an accurate ideas or more to it than that well yeah I you know I me and this idiot girl read a whole book about this one time and I wrote 10 of the chapters and she wrote three of the chapters but we had a deal with Red Wheel/Weiser and because of her being an [ __ ] this thing was never printed and it had been printed I probably you know a wealthy man now but if it had been printed I would still be answering questions about Rennes-le-Chateau you know 20 years later so it’s probably good that this book wasn’t written it didn’t become a best-seller it allowed me to have some normal kind of life but here’s the work like bro your angle of your angle line but without being able to explain the whole story I don’t um I don’t know if I could tell you what my final theory was but I think there’s something there and I think I know what it is and I think I know where it is because there’s um I had a map I noticed that we’re like certain recurring symbols that are where there were need a symbol and that far from it will be a very similar symbol so to see two of these symbols the one place I got a map of that the church at Rennes-le-Chateau and I made that on all these pairs of symbols and I drew these lines through several different pairs of symbols and they all intersected at the very same place so I think you know I think I wrote an open letter to the mayor of Reynolds oh and you know if you get ground-penetrating radar I’ll show you what you know where I am never heard anything back wow we’re supposed to meet the mayor read what she told while we were there and uh and have come lunch with him that at the last moment something came up but the Fox people are really worried because I said I’ve got a great great joke to tell the mayor friendly Chatel oh we shall woman what is it I said why do them the French plant rows of trees along those long avenues out in the country they said I don’t know why and I said so the German troops could march in the shade they said that’s terrible these abilities don’t say that least a little girl Sasol oh my god that’s awesome so the closest I came I was in Paris in 2012 and I was at and I wanted to go to Rennes-le-Chateau but I couldn’t can the people that I was with to go that direction so I saw happening and you know I still I’m done I’m still kind of sore about it even to this day I remember looking online at it again like I don’t know 2015-2016 something like that it looked like it totally they totally built up a little tourism thing around it but there’s a little restaurants and stuff because when I looked at it before it was like it was really that much out there so you really had to be kind of self supported you know if you’re going to go out there but it looks like they built up like a little you know like little I don’t know a little tourism industry go bed-and-breakfast and restaurants and shops and stuff like that which is probably you know not good for certain reasons that also means that it might be easier to to get there for some of those yeah there was a little bit of thought when I was there there’s probably now after the Dan Brown book and stuff there’s probably a shitload of stuff there leaving there’s probably Ramada nearby or something right because look at the time you could only stay in one other hotel that was near there and it was a hotel that had a whole bizarre history around it and aerial photos of this hotel look like the outline of the Madonna and Child so this place was somehow tied into that and there were all these weird sort of occult types there there was a you know we had dinner with all these people who have this intimate knowledge and the whole story run the Chateau and one guy is the guy who said he’d um he translated the world’s oldest book and it was a history of Atlantis called the history of it land and that it was in some unknown language and it was a typeface that looked very very runic it was all based on like a hexagon all the letters could be formed within the confines of a hexagon and and he had some weird chateau some place some castle we’re once a year white would come through a certain window and light up an altar and a fire would just form on this altar and they have ankle from all over the world in there to try to figure out why this happened or how it happened and none of the experts could figure out why oh wow yeah so it means a very interesting place but yeah there’s a bookstore there called the devil’s thumbprint I think and it was like a lot of books about the Cathars and the Templars and you know Redmont oh yeah yeah so I got a that reminds me I got a Czech version of the Satanic Bible oh wow yeah as i cool it’s in Czech that’s awesome and it it looks really nice just like hardcover um Wow very good yeah um oh you’ve been to Russia too right yeah yeah I’m probably going back to February to do show in Moscow and one in st. Petersburg oh that’s awesome so yeah yeah I had the best time when I was you know before so this is something else that that we have in common I went to Russia and played a show in Moscow with the band red flag you know the kind of new wave band from you know 1988 they had a Russian radio and if I ever anyhow they were like reformed like that red flag were they within the group that did some Epson songs and did like songs from bewitched and stuff two brothers yeah they’re two brothers yeah yeah exactly Chris Reynolds Chris Reynolds and his brother cam remember his brother’s name his brother died and then he reformed the band and I went on tour with them for a little while playing trigger pads and we went and did a show in Russia in Moscow and this was by 2007 and and it was amazing I had so much fun I was in the backstage and if I a little bit of German buy just enough you know like if people are drinking we can we can talk and so there’s people there he spoke German Recife Larry speak Russian and then that band clan is I’m ox was there and like everyone in that band is like from somewhere you know Estonia or Italy so there’s just all these languages going on everyone’s like drinking having a good time I just had the [ __ ] best time and the Russian people they they’re so musical you know if I said one day spend the day and you tell me if you have this experience but during the day everyone’s like really somber and quiet and and really like down to business and very unemotional but as soon as like work is over then then there’s been there’s drinks and they get really musical I mean people just hanging out the hotel lobby would start like playing the guitar you know and we’d sing Yellow Submarine and stuff like that is just how much bond you know yeah well didn’t do have you heard any of those stories about the Vladimir Putin when he was a undercover agent in Paris and he had no hair and he would play the guitar and play these door songs and everybody just he was like some undercover agent for Russia but everybody thought he was you know just this weird hippie folk singer guy Wow yep so what do you think of Russia how what’s your butt’s been your experience over there how do you like it I just loved it I love the people I love the food I love the big Soviet monuments I mean they’re just some fantastic fit on all this great modernist architecture and you know I just and you know I thought this is weird going to Moscow because you know is anybody really going to know who I am but as it turned out there’s this guy I met this actor he’s like a Russian action-adventure movie star and he was the host of some counterculture show right when things started Oh and up and he would always play my music on his show so this whole generation that saw this show we’re familiar with like music martinis and misanthropy and stuff like that no I met what met Russian kids who said oh I got all of your albums on cassettes you know down in the market on a local square and I found that difficult to believe that anybody would be bootlegging my albums but yeah one other thing I got a huge huge crowd and I was protested by the Russian Orthodox Church because of my connection with LeMay and I’m I was told these people are usually if there are people protesting me I’ll go out and I’ll talk to them and they don’t know who I have they have no idea what I’ve done but I was told don’t these people actually are fanatics they will kill you don’t go out these people but they were actually had merch they were selling t-shirts with these three skulls with knives in their teeth and the t-shirt said beep in in Russian of course it said the Orthodox or be dead Wow so somebody somebody coming to the show bought bought me a t-shirt from my protesters wow that’s cool yeah I love it I was just going say bad actor guy – there’s this restaurant that is only open to writers and actors and it was Stalin’s favorite restaurant and I have one of the best meals of my entire life of that place and it replacements like covers an entire city block and each room is gigantic but each room is decorated in a specific period from Russian history so you go through the whole thing and you just you get to experience every architectural form of every aspect of them Russian history and uh-huh it was just fantastic Wow it’s amazing yeah very swollen my scariest moment was so after we played the show we had a day of nothing going on Chris Reynolds and I we went to see try and see linens to winter Red Square we want to come and as one of the girls who are the promoters who spoke Russian was with us and taken us here we went down into the subway system which is really [ __ ] amazing there’s all these huge statues that have been there since you know pre you know World War 2 era that are just really quite extraordinary and see with the hotel the hotel we were staying at you have to take a ticket from the hotel with you and like when you leave your floor and there’s like this lady on the floor that you get the ticket from so anyhow it’s like I forgot to grab the ticket because we were like talking about like what is it you know what is this isn’t stupid we just blew it off right and so we didn’t have it so anyhow we’re in Red Square and one of the security guards they’re like you know you know called it’s over and you start talking to the girl you know they’re speaking in Russian we don’t know what’s going on and we realized that they’re they’re talking more we realized that you know Kristen I look at each other we realize there’s some kind of problem here and he wants to see our passports and she explains or they want to see our tickets from the hotel which we didn’t have and so then he wanted to see her passports and they took our passports and then they’re continuing to talk and that’s what I started to get scared I realized they got my passport now you know they could do anything that you know if this could go anywhere and there’s nothing I could do about it and eventually what happened is one of the other promoters wouldn’t buy our old hotel got our tickets and came down there and showed them to the guy and that was it that was enough he let us go Wow he you know we keep having to remind ourselves that it’s not Soviet anymore right it’s not so you know but the culture feels like you know it feels like you know it’s different you know it’s different but um anyhow that was myself that’s my scary story from Russia but other than that you know so you’re right it’s like the the food is just amazing the people are amazing I just loved it and look for any opportunity to try and get back there again sometime so did you did you ever actually get into Lenin’s tomb no we didn’t get into it as clothes so we just looked at it from the outside and took a picture yeah because Crispin Glover said you know Boyd if you ever find yourself in Moscow you’ve got to check out women’s two because I don’t know what they did to him but the way they embalmed him it looks as though he was just a life earlier in the day you know he lives and absolutely alive it’s kind of like a waxwork figure but he looks you know perfectly preserved and said it’s unbelievable but by the time I went there I think I’ve got a thing now where the public can see Lenin’s tomb anymore or maybe it’s open like one day a year or one day a month or something so yeah I know that that embalming that that thing with Lenin how they embalmed his body that’s all connected with the Soviets Soviet cognizant which is basically the backbone of the Soviet space program which was based on the philosophies of this guy named Federer who was around at the time of like Tolstoy Dostoevsky and these guys and he had a theory that eventually we will be able to through science and technology we will be able to recombine the dead molecules of everyone who has ever lived before and bring people back from the dead and you know we’re all right we will resurrect our fathers and then that generation will work on the next resurrecting the next generate generation back and eventually we’re going to bring back everybody and that ties in with like Russian you know the Orthodox perspective on on the apocalypse and [ __ ] and the Soviet space program when that was born they jump on these ideas because if you’re going to repopulate the world like that you’re going to run out of space and we need it that’s why we need to colonize space and that’s why they needed to build rockets and point you know Federoff said we he read an article that in America where Americans were like pointing cannons at the sky to try and get it to rain he said that’s what we we have to point our cannons at the sky and that was the motivation for the for the Soviet for the Soviet space program and so that’s why they have all this stuff with you know you know how they embalmed Lenin and stuff because what he might be literally that he might be coming back you know yeah well supposedly they sent a the perón’s body to russia to have her and bomb in the same way and then her body looked absolutely lifelike but I think her husband got out of power before he was going to build a giant Tower where people like climb all these sarin and see her body lying in a glass coffin well I don’t know whatever happened to it but I wish he’d finished that before he had to pucker whatever happened yeah so um so let’s change gears because I want to talk to you about throbbing gristle I know you went and worked at throbbing gristle like back in the day and I want to hear about that do you have any stories oh yeah do I have stories yeah I was actually um corresponding with them that when they were to art group before they started doing their band and they had just started doing tgd but I you know wrote letters to gen and cozy and stuff and and all they were part of this male art movement and Richard Kirk from cabaret voltaire was involved in that so I was in touch with him before you know before anybody knew who cabaret voltaire was just because we’re on a no interest in dadaism so yeah so I wrote Jen and cosy and I there were like some men’s magazines over here that had pictures of them wearing the Gary Gilmore shirt they did and so I felt them copies in these magazines they would write me when the first time I was staying in San Francisco and then for some I went to London I’m a 78 I went over to their studio at 10:00 Martello Street and just when I got there cosy was coming up the steps and and she had these this I make up like Twiggy or something and she’s wearing a super short dress and and she just looked fabulous and Maude uh-huh and said she invited me back to their back to their place what’s the name of that street at anyway um it’s a street a lot of people lived on at one time or another became like a mecca for people but so then eventually I met Jenny and I met them sleazy and Chris and you know every time I go to London I’d I’d sort of see them and hang out with them so this not like I I got there when I met them it’s like their first single United had just come out and the first annual report he’d just come out and it had you know there were 750 copies or something they had sold out so whenever they saw a copy in a store they would buy it and then you know a lot of their friends to reimburse them for it so that’s kind of like a a big black market for that and John Savage had written a big article about a throbbing gristle and everybody read it and they were just thrilled about everything that TG said and they couldn’t wait to hear the record but you couldn’t get it and and you know I was at a party where these people actually had the record and they were playing first annual report and people are talking and been talking early about how much they liked Rob gristle and then and support they said what the hell is this that we’re listening to in here I said next Robbie gristle they said missus Robbie gristle you’re kidding and at that time people you know I was interested I was attracted to Jim because um we had mutual interest in like true crime figures and you know Manson and Ian Brady and stuff like that so it’s like at that time literally nobody in the entire world found that stuff interesting and people thought that if you were interested in that that you were probably a murderer so I remember I went I spent the night over at his house one night and people saying you’re actually going to spend the night Genesis P Ward’s house I said yeah why why not he said this guy’s into Charlie Manson and stuff what you know he might kill you did he you know actually he served me tea and biscuits too you know zipped on a sleeping bag for me you know yeah and then I played with them at I was in Germany and I was in Berlin playing the show at the XS Club and I knew they were coming into town I told them I’d be there and they all showed up late for lie concert in Berlin and after the show Jen says well you know you should stay in Berlin and you could open up for us you know be like a united front you know uh nan and Cheech against the world so I said okay and I said I think as far as I know that’s the only time robbing Brussels ever had an opening band wow wow that’s amazing so I discovered throbbing gristle like it had to be like 1982 or something like that at the U at a used record store in in Lincoln Nebraska and Oh everyone I knew was into um you know when you call like like kind of the indie post-punk saying you know everyone was into you know new order and you know you know Cocteau twins and 4ad you know all the stuff on for ad all that kind of stuff and and and I found the album season earth and by n N and I found this looks like really cool and it reminded me because it seems they can read because I’d also read the Satanic Bible as into that kind of stuff and so I got it because of that as I’m still today up that’s probably my favorite T G album next to that big second annual report and you know and I the chick have shown up in the youth section there so whoever was getting great by um you know they’re buying for the regular record store because they thought it was cool then they listen to it and they’d be like what is this and they get rid of it so I picked them all up so I got all this old TG vinyl still and I mean to me that was to me that’s industrial music right they had industrial records they start that’s the first time I encountered that term you know industrial applied to music and and and you know to me that’s where it all started and then shortly after that because I was in throbbing gristle eventually I met someone else’s into that and PTV and then the research guides come up and that’s where I first started hearing about you know something you were doing at the time yeah yeah well it’s like it’s funny because that whole industrial movement all the people in that industrial culture handbook are so different from one to the other but they’re all lumped into this category just because they were all doing stuff that yeah didn’t sound like what most other people were doing and since throbbing gristle come up with it you know the catch phrase industrial meat critics love that stuff you know so yeah so yeah I purposely didn’t make up a moniker for what I did I thought I don’t want to say it’s this kind of music or that kind of music and having not done that I got whomped in with industrial music which is right finally yeah you know so and Nan is was non is that you’re kind of like your first musical project well the first musical stuff I did was stuff like my first stop of the Black Album it was kind of this atmospheric ambient music but then I started after I got into that I started doing Noise music at the same time so I was giving performances of Noise music in various art galleries up and down California and then I met dev at one of them a place in San Francisco called la mano and that was just um starting out playing at the Mabuhay Gardens which was a big punk rock place in San Francisco and he said you know you ought to get into the sooner playing this Punk circuit because nobody’s figured out what perk is yet so somebody like me can sneak in you know like sneaking into the circus or something and people don’t know that it’s not you know part of the punk scene so I started doing that and it’s like you know we do performances in art galleries and you know we wouldn’t be paid a cent but we would show up in these little rock-and-roll clubs and it was you know it’s like we’re taking our music right to the street it was like we’re taking it to people who weren’t just art people sort of scratching a chin and figuring out what the subtext was of what you were doing and just people who experienced it and this is in San Francisco you are well San Francisco and then there are clubs like that in San Diego clubs look at in LA and then the inside went to play Boston we played it New York and you know all over the place so I’m just trying to connect it all with other things so what kind of kind of punk bands were your bow see like I said do shows with especial um I regularly did shows with these bands monitor the human hands and the bee people but I played on all sorts of bills I opened for wall doodoo a band that was around that was really great at the time was called the Screamers and fact they origin it was an all-electronic punk band and it’s really visceral ear piercing stuff and they were so amazing everybody expected them to be the next big thing everybody wanted to sign them if they were holding out to do a video disc and they never got the opportunity to do that so unfortunately it you know they wouldn’t know where yeah Wow and wala bhutta that’s that’s pretty intense that’s that’s one of those bands that you know they were just so they you know everyone likes Mexican radio the album that they put out they have all these other songs on it like Lost Weekend and stuff like eyes like really a underrated band it’s like whatever happened to them you know yeah I don’t suppose you’re interning about a you know reunion tour with them variety also suing it right because they’re big is out there I mean for whatever reason it’s like I mean that’s not you know Mexican radio is this spin I mean I think that that’s charted or something it’s been like you know just replicated like a mean forever so it seems like they can easily get back together you know or maybe you know if there’s only one guy left who’s alive you could you know get it back together and and have a good time with it yeah whose lead singers what’s his name Stan I don’t know I had no idea Oh because I know that midnight I opened for them I had to like I was going out of the country the next year something so I had to uh you know leave before the whole evening was over am at the lead singer for a while Buddha kept calling me a long distance in San Diego saying hey I’ve still got this $75 for you when he came back here again so that’s why you ever tried pillows you can add red although I think he eventually gave it to somebody I knew or something I eventually ended up getting at the you know that stand Ridgeway was the guy’s name you have a sugar that sounds right that sounds right parfum I got a thought though okay so I got to ask a little bit about one of my favorite boy Bryce albums from back in the day with paid sale and broker and around that time I I was hatched as Fritz Partridge and you know get old was kind of my kind of like you know let me through that process at the time and the Partridge Family Temple was totally a saying in in Kenosha at one point can you talk a little yeah about the Partridge Family temple okay well um I when the Partridge Family was on I mean I was probably 16 or 17 I was probably too old to be watching it but I I never missed it I really liked it and I liked their music so when I moved to Denver we were waiting to go into this record store called wax trax waiting to cross the street and this car drove by and it was completely covered in bubble gum and had little toys glued on it and stuff I said I’d like to you know I’d like to know the story behind that I’d like to meet the people who are driving in that car and the girl with me said oh yeah those are the guys from The Partridge Family temple I said what side she said I’ve got this whole religion based around the Partridge Family where you know there’s his mother goddess and Laurice is the Scarlet [ __ ] of Babylon and you know Keith is the God of War and Danny’s the trickster god and I said I got a [ __ ] meet these people so I was writing from the spag a–they and it’s free giveaway magazine at the time called Colorado music magazine it’s where there’s like newspapers it’s it’s free and every record store so I pitched to them the idea like I want to go up and interview these Partridge Family Temple people they said oh yeah yeah that would be fun so it ended up they were on the cover of this magazine it’s like was Dan and Sean Partridge incited how without TV set now and so that was the first major publicity besides they got some publicity because there got thrown out of a David Cassidy concert for handing out Partridge Family temple stickers and the police thought they were handing out LSD with pictures of Archer tramway on it yes and that’s what that’s what Danny Bonaduce were told what still he said what’s what’s all this ruckus and they said we had these members of weird cult they’re passing out that LSD with your pictures on it and he said wow that’s great so so he thought it was cool it scared the hell out of David Cassidy Danny’s always the coolest yeah yeah so then yeah so I on there though I well I just met them and then you know I got a letter from Dan after I interviewed them in Boulder and from the Mork & Mindy house and a week later I got a rep a letter arrived for me it was addressed to Boyd Partridge who Dan so it’s like I said it became part of a you know it’s like I was hanging out with those dogs and they had a whole network of people here a whole network of these people are like when’s groovy kind of 70s clothing and big floppy hats that looked like the American flag and stuff it was fun we had a lot of fun when those people level was here in Denver still though they’ve scattered across the globe to spread the word so what about gittle do you ever talk to her anymore no you know nobody talks to her anymore she’s just um she’s a pathological liar you know okay it’s a shame it’s a shame but you know it’s like her father thought I was crazy when I said I’m not having anything more to do with your daughter it’s like boy what the hell is your problem and then he eventually realized like yeah she’s a little crazy she’s a little bit of a pathological liar and people who when I say listen you’re going on the internet telling lies about me don’t put words in my mouth and say I’ve said things that I haven’t said she said I didn’t do that all right I’ve seen it so you know she did that one too many times and it’s just like now most of the people who who knew her just said you know it’s like Matt Skiba there’s a friend of mine you know he’s in blink 182 in the Alkaline Trio and he needed her and he said you know I I really liked it’ll but she’s too much negative energy you know I can’t be around her because I’m a dirty ass that guy you know I don’t want to be around somebody who has enemies and you know wants to destroy people wants to ruin their lives yeah so I thought but the other part ridges are great you know yeah so I remember the first time I remember meeting get old was is when I was touring with morphine angel and we had like a night off and we were near Pittsburgh and the Hellfire Club was playing in Pittsburgh with a Spahn Ranch and and we were in touch with Todd Thomas said hey well you’re in the neighborhood come hang out with us and so we went and hung out with them during their show and and this is where Jon like met had hooked up with them on the road and she was like merchandising for him and she is going around like drawing extras on air one for heads at night like that Matt did you know the Spahn Ranch guys Matt green yeah I I’ve been one of those guys I mean the guy who’s some brother was on American idea yeah an American Idol that’s actually the last time I saw a get all was with American Idol was on we’re watching it and at what it’s a cut c’mon 8/8 and Athan is the guy and then it says yeah Constantine or something Mike Constantine yeah that’s right yeah and like he’s doing it it’s like that first season I think of American Idol whatever was watching it I was watch it with my wife but it’s like they did the camera pans out over the crowd is like oh my god a cute old chick but she was the kind of girl that um always hated I always had a prop she never she was never anyone’s girlfriend and she always had a problem with everyone else’s girlfriend it was just ah ha ha you know what I mean but yeah yeah I know I know problems always need somebody to hate you know yeah yeah a lot of negative energy but anyhow there was always that Partridge Family Temple movement the whole idea that mean that that feel it was all about positivity you know and for me I mean I I watched you know uh that television show when I was I was probably like you know you know six seven years old when it was like playing on TV I was related to Danny Danny was the guy in the in the group that was like closest to my age and so I don’t know you know I took a low-key you know mischievious imprint and I ended up playing a base to like like oh you know I always like to pick a lot of inspiration out of that that Partridge Family Temple and thought that was a real fun thing yeah well I mean talking to Sean Partridge on the phone is like it is taking a rollercoaster ride on LSD or something I mean if you can’t talk to this guy without just being transported into his universe and it’s a completely alternate universe where everything is fun and everything you know fastened restaurants have a mystical significance and you know it’s if you treat everything that way everything has that power everything is imbued with that power you know yeah really you know it really is a religion based on hung yeah and that’s very satanic to to bring it all back to Satanism and the sort of magic that ant of a wove has this idea that you your inner wish your inner you know vision about how the world should be you have the power to do the power of your mind to create a world right back to make a world by that yeah absolutely I mean that’s that’s what I have these ideas about the alchemy of aesthetics now you can apply a finish to your life and what they have these ideas about people creating total environments and very few people I know actually bother to do this but you can like people come movers come in like neck a couple Mexican guys on caring in a couch to our house and one of them will like look around and go who designed your house man Stanley Kubrick and everybody relates to my house everybody says this looks like something out of Clockwork Orange you know so and it’s like I’m living in this beautiful ultra-modern movie set with all this amazing stuff from 1969-1970 mm-hmm so you can’t remake your world you know it’s like this is a place that if I could never leave this house I would never leave it because nothing outside is is interesting is this and when you’re talking about people and their options earlier as something I was thinking commenting honestly I know people who are rich other people who millionaires and you go to their houses and they’ve done nothing particularly special with it they’ve you know just it looks like they randomly bought one piece of something here one piece of something from someplace else and it’s just like you think your house is like your wife you could turn it into whatever you want it to be what the limits are only that of your imagination you know and and people don’t do it so that yeah it’s not good for me I’m living the ideal life and everybody else’s creating problems when they don’t enjoying being Apple yeah now most people are miserable and unhappy because that’s where they want to be and so you create the world that you create your reality so that’s something that when I was just the way it is so but you got a new album coming out too aren’t you working on some new music yeah I finished this album about maybe three years ago and it’s just been held up but I just recently heard from the guy at new records and he says now the release stayed a credible while about was going to be on September so I was looking forward to coming up soon and how dishes can be October so to me on vinyl it’s going to be a two-record set and a gatefold album and each side of the record is just like a 20 minute drone it’s really loud and harsh and uh-huh and some people heard it think it’s you know what that’s a I’ve ever done and and I sort of think figure out too because it’s it’s look it’s like certain the truest thing – my initial intention of just doing nothing absolutely as minimal as you can be and I had this idea when I was a teenager that if you had one single poem and you played it so loud that it blocked out all other sounds you’d be creating it’s kind of artificial silence because I felt like the world is too full of distractions and you know you know it’s very difficult anymore to have just time alone with your mind for undirected soft because unless you’re on your toilet or in the bathtub you know there’s always some sort of sound going of it yeah intruding excellent [ __ ] off my lease release of that and man this has just been an incredible conversation there’s so much so much we talked about that just resonates so strongly do you have any final words for all of our listeners out there that might help them through the dark times that lie before us um go on amazon.com and buy my new book the last Testament of Anton’s and or FA it’s a very fun read and I think it paints a good portrait of the old man that I you way back when excellent and I reiterate that yes everyone pick up this book it’s awesome I’ve greatly enjoyed it there’s so much great material in here so many great memories that you’re sharing and excellent photographs so it’s a wonderful offering I highly recommend it and yeah when it debuted on Amazon as number one bestseller in the category of religious studies and I think they must have gotten some feedback about that because it vanished from the religious studies category and reappeared as the number one bestseller on Satanism and demonology [Laughter] well that means you’re definitely definitely turning over kicking over some Tabernacles there somewhere so that’s that’s a good thing so I’m going to hear that so all right well thank you so much for spending this time with us this evening yeah it’s been excellent it’s been excellent and I got I wish I could like I have so many great Genesis P orage stories and I wish I could have thought about something really amusing for you because they’re zombies you know stuff like there’s a rumor at one time somebody sold Charlie Chaplin’s cadaver and the rumors going around there’s me and Genesis T Orange mmm-hmm I mean that’s next bizarre yeah Wow crazy but you hadn’t know okay but doctor coughing that happened write this at the time right before I went to and played with him at the Esso 36 in Berlin so we’ve invested in the coffee coffee bar there so what we should do is have you come back on this like after the album comes out let’s have you come back on the show and we’ll make a point to we’ll make it music and Genesis pure anecdotes show I got a couple of I got a couple advantages I talked to him via email I was in a band we did a cover of Good Vibrations and had some exchanges with them about that and then and then I saw them go play in Houston and and had an exchange of them there so we could totally do like an anecdote thing I’m sure you’ve got some incredible stories from back in the day I would love to hear all those guys that would just be awesome okay well make a few notes for the leg and shut them especially no actually cool