…that’s that’s one thing that’s very specific I suppose but another little the economic on the publication of a book called an economic on demand what Necronomicon it is I think raises a lot of questions that have become very controversial and that is you know what is a true book it questions the value of pseudepigrapha for instance I mean the Kia solvent was not written by solvent right there’s false attributions to it the the garden dairy in the Book of Shadows was written by Gerald Gardner and I would advise the nation you know take it which is a couple of thousand years ago 100 years ago so we have to ask ourselves you know where is the value the Necronomicon itself forces people to question you know what do we really value to revaluation texts because it’s ancient do we do we value it because it has something else to offer us you know there’s a new text with ancient patina what say is it just as valuable have you know the new text or or or segmentation text me they ask a lot of questions and it forces people to confront the question of dealing with the dark side all occultism essentially deals with the other it deals with another reality and they deal with the dark side of human consciousness even if it’s angelic magic even if it’s you know Jewish mysticism Kabbalistic occultism or anything like that instead of deal dealing with the dark side if dealing with the unseen and the Necronomicon has sort of been your face about that and the Necronomicon is all about the unseen it’s all about the dark side that makes no apology for it and maybe it answers some neat you know people by saying no this is a book about darkness you know it’s how to protect yourself against it it doesn’t dwell on you know forming packs you know with with bacon or something it’s not like that but it does deal with artists it deals with a pre judeo-christian mentality where religion and magic is concerned and maybe it’s valuable for that reason maybe represents unresolved issues in the Sumerian world view that was reflected in this text the good gods are only good because they’re not as bad as the bad guys right there the bad guns want to come and kill us and eat us basically and then the good guys are the ones that created us and sort of forgot about us and they don’t really answer our prayers unless we really do something to wake them up like anything that you know an eloquent you know statement of our human condition at the moment I mean sometimes I wonder if maybe this whole war between the forces of like the forces of darkness is just you know alien versus Predator you know what I mean I mean it’s a plague on both your houses maybe maybe for us if it’s a question of just choosing sides it’s not a question of either drunk it’s not a question of a moral spiritual force maybe the spiritual forces are a mall or their morality is something beyond our understanding above the intelligence they have what they call discernment right right so you know some of this deep the best of it is a spirit yet to figure out it’s a good skirt or a bad spirit because you know a bad spirit could appear just as charming and as a good spirit right I mean Satan hardly ever shows up you know with horns and a tail he shows up probably the business of you know free teeth you know want to grab publically who knows you know I mean unless you really have a fine tooth sensitivity who knows what evil or good or who’s what’s beneficial for the human race for though you’re working torn apart by but by all sorts of moral decisions that were faced with nothing I don’t think the world in general really had to face for a long time and he won’t work so it seems pretty obvious who the good guys the bad guys were you know and pretty much thought we do in those days and then everything changed you know and then we made a lot of very dubious moral choices particularly printing without these over and you know again I get to bed with seven supporting the Nazis all over the place we said to ourselves well better you know better doesn’t record all this other stuff and you know we made some very very strange loyal choices about we’re paying for that you know I’ve been paying for it in Iraq which I bring it up it’s the place where I belong right coming home back to the beginning here you mentioned something that basically is the note you ended on in your book series you were talking about the influence of sinister forces throughout the American history and you ended by saying that America basically made a pact with the devil Wednesday decided to bring in Nazi scientists after World War two and that were what you refer to as a spirit of fascism has been possessing the United States ever since then that we’ve been permanently cursed because of this is that a fair representation of what you were saying yeah I hope I hope the word permanent is not is that operational but I think we did it we sold our soul at that point we fell to the trap you know these were people who responsible for the most horrific crimes humanity has ever known unspeakable horror have been created and somehow we were willing to overlook that and we should have been better than that we should have said nothing is worth supporting people like this bringing them over and you know giving them salaries and giving them houses and saying you know work for us nothing should have been worth that they should have been worth covering for people like Klaus Barbie for instance the butcher of Lyon or any of the other people we brought over be cobbled we protected from you know from going to justice back in the 1940s after the war people like Eleanor Roosevelt and Albert Einstein they were holding meetings saying you know please stop bringing the mathews over this is horrible she’s reprehensible even Truman issued an order to the Pentagon to stop doing it made Morgan there was a point at which we thought that dealing with the Nazis was hope and it extended until the 1950s 1960s when the world anti-communist League that helped Reigate get elected president was littled with people who were involved in war crimes do a little treat but the Bishop of the Romanian Orthodox Church for many years was really an Iron Guard Nazi back in Romania who was a fake Bishop you know he basically took over the Romanian Orthodox Church here by the force and we supported him we’d be protected him Nixon protected Nazi war criminals he went out of his way to do it Dulles protected them we protected people who lobsters people who had no moral compass whatsoever and in doing that we it’s like the old stories of you know you invite the vampire into your house unless you look like if you can’t commit well we invited them and the excuse for Project Paperclip bringing over Nazis to work in our NASA and intelligence organizations is that we didn’t want the Soviets to get them so we had to take them instead but really we could have just killed them or imprison them for life – right of course I mean it wasn’t a question of either or you know if we had capture these dusty Sciences so we could capture them and make them stand trial at some of the prison the Russians wouldn’t have gotten them well I have to agree with you there and I think I think it’s time that we bring this marathon interview to an end but I thank you very much for your cooperation as you know I love your work and I would recommend to anyone unholy alliance and sinister forces volumes one two and three and for that matter the Necronomicon and here’s a website go ahead put your ax yes it’s WWF forces info INF ho all right thanks Peter talk to you thank you very much truth all right that was Peter Levenda I hope you enjoyed my conversation with him we’re about to say goodbye here plus ultra as always I would like to thank Kevin ole Thompson of iota Alpha Omega for the theme song and Brian Albert for designing the plus ultra coat of arms and for every episode of the plus ultra podcast I will always remind you that my views which I expressed are not necessarily shared by our guests our contributors or our advertisers and of course their views are not necessarily shared by me today’s bumper music was brought to you by Luke the wizard from Slovenia you can find his music in the coffee collective archive at ka HDI org that’s ka h VI org right now I’m going to play for you a song by the band keeper that’s ke th er you can find them on MySpace they’ve got a new single out now about the mystery of Rennes-le-Château it’s called walking on gold and it features a clip cold from a TV interview I did in 1998 they stamp will be saying the words Vatican conspiracy so here it is walking on gold by Keith er until next time don’t be afraid to venture beyond…